Episode 3 - Kristen Gandy - Paranormal Investigator & Psychic
Untitled - December 14, 2025
00:00:00 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: So. And then, uh, everything you say from this point forward will be recorded. But if you want me to edit anything out, just let me know. I'm keeping, uh, a list of stuff, uh, like timestamps
00:00:13 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Okay.
00:00:14 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: so I can edit out stupid shit I say and
00:00:20 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah. I glanced
00:00:20 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: anything
00:00:21 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: at what you sent
00:00:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: what
00:00:21 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: me, but
00:00:22 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: you sent me.
00:00:22 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I'm
00:00:22 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: But I'm
00:00:23 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: winging it.
00:00:24 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: winging it. It's fine. Yeah, I think winging is the best way, but, um, since we're gonna be getting a little woo woo, I thought I'd send you a list. Um, but. Yeah, uh, I'm gonna go ahead and just do an intro because I'm tired of pre-recording introductions. Um. It's taxing, so. All right. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Learning to Be Liminal. I am your host, Jared Hall, and I'm here with my friend Kristin Gandy from Bu eight one two. She's the last the last person on the boat. Eight one two team I've to interview. And, uh. Uh, I'm biased, but my favorite person on the boat. Eight one two team. Because we've known each other for, like, a long, long, long time, a long time. Uh, so. Yeah, we met. What? I was at the. It had to be the movie theater. Did we know each other before the movie theater? Mall cop situation or.
00:01:22 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I.
00:01:23 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: And that sounds way crazier than it was.
00:01:25 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: It was
00:01:25 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: I
00:01:25 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: like
00:01:25 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: was
00:01:26 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: two thousand
00:01:26 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: like
00:01:26 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: and
00:01:26 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: two
00:01:26 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: five,
00:01:26 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: thousand and five,
00:01:27 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: two thousand
00:01:28 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: two
00:01:28 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: and six,
00:01:28 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: thousand
00:01:28 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: maybe.
00:01:28 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: and six, maybe. Yeah, somewhere in there. Um, I'm gonna leave it at that because saying the movie theater mall cop situation sounds way cooler than what that actual situation was. but yeah, we've known each other for a long time. We lost touch for a long time, and then around the same time, I started my woo woo journey. I know you were into, like, paranormal investigation and stuff for a long time because I'd seen you post, but I didn't know how. I just assumed that was ghost hunting, so I didn't know how far into things it went until I became a professional tarot reader and saw you leading classes at the Ravens Roost, which used to be a metaphysical shop in our hometown. So I reached out and we reconnected that way. So I kind of want to catch up in that realm. We've obviously done some like investigations and stuff together since then, but I don't know anything about Paranormal Kristen or how you got into all that stuff because you were a singer in a rock band when I knew you. And then, yeah, that was the the Kristen I knew. So let's go over your origin story. How did you how did you get into the paranormal stuff?
00:02:41 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I have always been interested in the paranormal. Uh, I watch, like, ghost hunters and, like, the shows and whatnot. And I'd had my own experiences, which I think is what drew me to those things. But it really kind of took off. When you get the opportunity to just go out and do it. And so I was in college and had an opportunity to go with another team to kind of like, I don't know, see what it's all about, like to do it, I guess, in a seemingly professional way. And it led to the academic stuff and it just kind of snowballed from there. It's been an interesting journey for sure.
00:03:26 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: So when you got into it, like, how'd you get the first opportunity? Like, what was your first ghost hunt? Do you remember?
00:03:32 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Um, it's funny, so Katie took that paranormal class at IU southeast and I wasn't in a paranormal class, but I was in something kind of adjacent, but with them as, like a paranormal club or team. And so we actually collaborated with them, um, and ended up together. And that was like twenty twelve, twenty thirteen ish. Um, and that's how I met Katie. And we started going into the more academic stuff together. So the first oh gosh, I'm trying to remember the very first place. I think my very first ghost hunt was actually at Bridgewater Cemetery in a in a somewhat professional capacity. But you can't do lab conditions outside. So it was kind of more of a practice kind of thing, not for any real data, but have you been there?
00:04:36 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: No, I've never been there. But I'd love to do an outdoor investigation and anytime I talk about it. Sorry this is off topic, but this is how my brain works. I think of this book, which you should read. Um, it's by will store. Um, it's this reporter from the UK and he goes undercover into, um, it's will store versus the paranormal. That's the name of the book. But he tells the story of being on set in a cemetery for, like, a paranormal investigation. And they had to chase off some teenagers that were hiding in bushes going, bollocks. It's all bollocks. And I always think of ghosts saying that whenever I think of outdoor investigations. So what's, uh. I'm sorry, what's Bridgewater Cemetery?
00:05:19 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: So Bridgewater Cemetery is this little cemetery in the middle of nowhere. It's very small. It's very it's got a lot a high notoriety in the area of like, all the locals and things. And a lot of people would visit that cemetery. Um, it kind of became a nuisance, I guess, for a lot of the people that lived around there, because it is in the middle of nowhere. So, you know, when people are showing up, um, I think as it became more noticeable that their paranormal activity was rumored and like it was a big deal. People would actually try to find out or know when people were going to show up to the cemetery and try to like, do that, like hide and like make noises or, you know, whatever. But, um, which is the hard thing of doing investigations outside because you don't know exactly where things are coming from. But it's a it's a cute little cemetery. It's, um, really old. And I love visiting there. I don't know, I think that they like I think it might be on private property now. I'm not sure. I haven't been there in a long time.
00:06:35 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: And did. Uh, so investigating cemeteries is kind of a weird thing, I think, because, like, did you guys get anything? Do you think there's activity in cemeteries because there's lots of people that believe that they're like sacred ground. There's lots of spiritual activity there, and there are a lot of people that think, if you're dead, why would you hang around your dead body? There's so much of the cool stuff you could do, so why would you be there? So how do you feel about investigating cemeteries now that you're.
00:07:06 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I think a little bit differently in a sense of activity in the cemetery. It's just so hard to tell, really, because we just don't know. But, um, I don't know necessarily. It's is the activity there when we're not there? Is the activity there because we want it to be there? Um, because, you know, people show things happening on videos and whatever, but what's really going on when no one's there, when no one can see. Like, is there any activity? I haven't seen anything to that effect myself. So are we inviting that to come into the cemetery or is it just hanging out? I don't know.
00:07:57 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Interesting. So, um, we'll come back to that in a minute. Um, because I always like to end on that note of kind of what the what you guys believe in. Um, and I'm sure we'll we'll have to address that at some point. So you're investigating. You're doing bu eight one two, you meet up with Katie, all that stuff happens, and you're in the academic side of things. At some point. And this is like the meat of probably what we're going to talk about. So I'm going to fast forward because Kristen is psychic I guess. Are you claiming are you claiming psychic ability? How do you feel about it? Like what do you prefer to call it, or do you like to not put a label on it?
00:08:40 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: So I actually had a really hard time with it. I had a hard time putting a label to it. But Last year, I decided I felt comfortable with stating it was like a psychic mediumship. I don't broadcast that information. Um, I tend to be kind of more about it, but it is something that has become a bigger part of my life.
00:09:06 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Okay, I like that. I'm like, in a sort of similar boat. Um, with what I do. So I can get down on that. But I do like, I haven't, I hadn't met anybody as like with similar happenings, I guess, until we reconnected. And so it's been interesting to see how you deal with it. And, um, I guess if I, if I'm talking about this in like, um, to people, I refer to him as like we play games in quotes because I don't know what to call it, but we like to do this thing. Um, I've been out with Courtney and Katie, and they'll be like, let's text Kristen and see if she can tell us what we're doing. Or, um, sometimes you'll just pick up on things and you text us. So, like, I guess we can back up in a second. But one of the questions I had, and maybe the thing that I'm the most interested in, because it's the thing I struggle with. When do you like is there a way you discern between psychic mojo and just our subconscious? Like, is there anything you've found that, like, tips you off to? Like, oh, this might be bigger than my imagination or vice versa?
00:10:24 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I think it's kind of mixed together. The separation for me comes when I intentionally looking for that information versus not. And I'm not trying to understand something psychic versus just, I know, intuition, which that's basically what I'm using anyway. But it kind of. Oh sorry. I'm trying to I guess separate it is the validation. Um, if it's something subconscious and then later I'm like, oh, I get some validation that that might have been something more psychic than just happenstance or coincidence.
00:11:20 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Okay, that makes sense. So you're just kind of when stuff does happen, you reach out and just check in. So I guess that kind of sums up kind of what happens to you'll just text and say, hey, I just had this thing happen. Does that make any sort of sense to you? And if yeah, then you kind of chalk it up to to what it is. I feel like that. That's refreshing too, you because I feel so much like you meet people that are psychic or whatever, and they're just kind of they just say stuff all the time as if it's true and don't ever check in. Just like a whole, that could be a whole other conversation. But I like that approach to, to to validating whether it's subconscious and also being just aware, conscious that that could be, could be a thing. Um.
00:12:12 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I was going to say, I think the reason that I. Was when I started developing this more the logic and willingness to be more logical and I guess police myself like, okay, what is this? Is there another explanation? Figure all of that and then, okay, maybe it was psychic.
00:12:39 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. So let's start. So we go we're doing the investigation stuff. Have you always had the psychic mojo or that happens at a certain investor like after a certain point. Right. Like when do you discover this? And I know we've talked about some of it off air and I've heard rumblings, um, hush hush rumblings and whispers in the dark of being like, well, you know, this thing, this scary, this terrifying thing happened. And then Kristen got the juice. So, like, what can you talk a little bit about that? Like, do you have any theories on how things started for you?
00:13:18 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I think I've always been sensitive and had an ability to sense things that may not be there, or sense things, and just not really understood it. Um, I've had I had a lot of experiences happen to me that I didn't realize what they were until now. Like, looking back, I'm like, oh, that and that and that, and that happened. And I didn't have a name for it then. I didn't understand it, but I did have a very scary thing happen. Um, I won't go into too crazy detail. Um, there is someone video somewhere. Actually. I wonder if Katie might have some of that. Um, but one of the people we were with on an investigation at an old, um, rectory, um, we decided to do an experiment, and it was with a bunch of people that I trusted, and they were like, Kristen, we think you have like, your extra sensitive. You have these, like, abilities? We think. So let's do an experiment. So I went into the room, the building with, um, another investigator was kind of our leadership in a sense. Um, but he was doing this experiment, and I don't remember all of it. I don't really quite know what happened, which I think is like some of the scary part where I wasn't completely myself. And, um, I remember pieces beforehand of like, oh, we're going to do this, like, experiment. Let's see how we feel. What happens? Um, there's this front room in that building with a couch, and it was like this beautiful old buildings, like big fireplace. It's gorgeous. And I was, like, really drawn to the couch. And I felt really comfortable in the house, which is not normal for me. Um, I may be a paranormal investigator, and I may have abilities or sensitivities, but I'm also kind of a wuss. And I've always had like, I don't want to call it maybe a fear, but like a caution to the dark. And that's something that I've had to get over even as a child. But I had things happen as a kid I couldn't explain. So that was also part of my like, oh, the dark is kind of scary. Um, but I was really comfortable in this building and I just normally wasn't. I think this was our second or third time being there. So I did have some comfortability there, but I was drawn to the couch. I wanted to sit on the couch. Um, I sat down and there was some weirdness that went on. I don't remember all of it, but at one point I apparently started speaking Latin. I don't know Latin. I've never spoken Latin before in my life. Um, I was aggressive. I'm not an aggressive person. Apparently I punched somebody or tried to punch somebody that's on video. Um, this really is, like, strange experience. Of what? I could be an oppression or having some type of psychic takeover. Listen, Jared, I sound crazy because, like. I don't even it's like a horror movie, and it's really hard to describe and for me to talk about because after this happened, the way it ended is I woke up wet outside on the pavement and I had hit my head on the ground. Um, I was on the I was just laying flat in the parking lot, like, way away from the building. Um, they got me completely away from the building and I guess poured holy water on my head, and I was fine. And they may have done some other things, I don't know, I wasn't there. Um, but that was probably one of the scariest, weirdest experiences I've ever had. And that is the in a nutshell version. Um.
00:17:11 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Got it. So do. Did your head spin around backwards? Did you vomit pea soup? Did we have any of that?
00:17:17 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: No no no no, nothing like that. Um.
00:17:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: I'm hearing Austin Powers in my head instead of the Exorcist priest. By the way, the power of Christ compels you. Or was it Doctor Evil? I don't remember, but that's like. That's scary shit. I'm minimalizing it because.
00:17:33 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I do remember not being myself like I. It was almost like I lost time a little bit. Um, I've never had anything like that happen before. And it felt very. It felt like a movie, like, is this even real life? Like what just happened to me when I woke up outside? I say woke up because I'm just like, what just happened to me? Why am I soaking wet? They poured an entire bottle of holy water on me, like what is going on? And the whole way home we were all just quiet and processing and like, did that really happen? Um, and I think after that, everybody just wanted to be in denial. But I was left on my own and I was not. I think this is this is the moment that I had where I knew I needed to develop my my willpower, my my energetic, protective protective shield, if you will, and I didn't really have a lot of help. I was kind of left out in the cold. Um, I'm kind of messing with things and not really understanding them and then just being what's going on. So I had a weird relationship with that building, and I would have dreams about it. I would have like it just went on for weeks. And then I was, um, just started meditating and I started, like, building up just my own protective shield, if you will. But after that particular moment is when, like, the floodgates opened and I was I was a new person. And it feels weird to say that. But I also felt more empowered because I was able to control what, what I allowed in my energetic space. But, um, that's when I kind of decided to go further. Once I did feel like I had a good hold on that, um, on my own protective energetic space, my own energy bubble, if you will. Once I felt like I had a good handle on that, that's when I felt like I. Because I took a break from investigating. After that happened, I did not investigate for quite a while, probably about a year. Um, while I continued to build that up. It took some time, and then once I felt safer, I started developing more outside into the psychic realm of. Mm, that happened to me. That will never happen again. And let me move forward so that I can continue building on what I have been working on, I guess.
00:20:12 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Cool. Thanks for sharing. So this is the point where I, we can talk shit about, uh, Katy and, uh, Courtney or whoever else
00:20:21 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: By
00:20:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: was
00:20:22 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: the way.
00:20:22 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: there. Yeah, guys. Come on, glutton
00:20:25 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: So I knew I wasn't.
00:20:26 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: your friends down. I do think, uh, and this is just the vibe I've gotten because I always wondered. This explains why, when I've heard people talk about it, you don't talk about it much. Um, and even talking about it now, he didn't seem like too, too bothered by it. But I can tell when Katie and Courtney talk about it that it really shook them up. Because when they do talk about it, they start whispering. Even if we're just like, broad daylight wherever.
00:21:01 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Well, that makes
00:21:01 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: It's really
00:21:02 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: sense
00:21:02 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: funny.
00:21:02 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: because they watched it. They watched me turn into a completely different human that they didn't recognize, and I don't remember all of it. I go off of video, I watch the video, and I was like, what? What if we didn't have the video and I didn't have witnesses? I probably would be like, okay, this is garbage.
00:21:28 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, that's just insane. So after that happened, was there any sort of, like, change? I know you had talked about like you had to obviously, like, get a handle on being protective, um, and protecting yourself. But did you feel. Any like, emotional or physical or change were there like changes in relationships in that group after they. I mean, we talked about that a bit like I'm sure did some people just like, stop talking to you forever. Um, and then also, did you did you feel any like emotional or physical changes after that happened?
00:22:11 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: There was a couple of people with us that I think it really did mess up more than. I mean, it messed everybody up, honestly. We were we were all just, like, processing, um, And I even like with Courtney and Katie. Um, they were I wouldn't say that they, like, shied away from me, but they were. I could tell they were a little weirded out when I would try to talk to them about it. And because I'm wanting to know, like what happened exactly. I'm I'm trying to find out what went on when I wasn't completely with it. Um, and that was hard, I think, for them to talk about and then a couple other people, I think it just scared them away completely. Just I don't think, um, I've talked to them since actually, um, maybe once. One person I did talk to once, but. And they were just they were just a little weirded out. Um, it's definitely one of those things that I've not forgotten. And I think about even when I go to the area that that building is in, I'm just like, I get a little uncomfortable. And it took a long time for me to be able to go to that area and be okay. Um, it was kind of traumatic, even at a subconscious level.
00:23:29 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah I bet. I mean, I don't have I haven't talked about this story like super often, um, until recently. But one of the reasons I wanted to talk about that is because I didn't have any real paranormal experiences. I had one when I was a kid that could have just been a bad dream. So I don't count it like, um, and, uh, I go into that into detail on that, um, on, uh, the strange reality whenever that episode airs. But there, after that, I didn't have anything. I was just like a fan of ghost shows because my mom, my mom kind of got me into it. And then doing the stuff at the haunted house where we kind of faked all that jazz, um, which I talked about a bit on the last episode. That is when I had, uh, I did not have an out of body experience, but I had more traditional, I guess, uh, what the church would refer to. And I don't mean like, even maybe necessarily the Catholic Church, but the, like, Baptist church at least would consider possession symptoms of just being like, paranoid, plagued, haunted, depressed. Like all of these bad negative feelings for weeks and weeks. Uh, I wasn't comfortable being alone. Uh, I would get very frightened for no reason. Um, in places I felt safe in usually. And then called my friend Tim, who was a pastor at the time, and he prayed over me for like two hours, and then everything went back to normal. And then like the next weekend at the haunted house, I had my first paranormal experience. So it's I wonder if that like, I was really thinking about it today because I wanted to ask you if you feel like that increased your intuitive ability, you kind of already said you thought you were open to things before then, but It for me at least. Um, I don't, I didn't I mean, I felt like I could read, I could understand people like, I could. I had a good understanding of people and emotions and reading people for whatever the fuck that means, right? Like, I could tell when people are sad or and they're hiding it. I'm a good judge of like, you're full of shit and you're lying to me. For the most part, I think I am, who really knows. But so I had those abilities already. But weirder. The weirder shit didn't start happening until after that. So do you think that when that happens to people that that increases it? And also, what do you think it is? And that's a loaded question because I don't know. I have no fucking clue. I'm always thinking about it. But you've you've got a I feel like you might have a greater understanding because you're a little bit more advanced.
00:26:17 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I think at that moment I don't know that it increased it. I think that it allowed me to see what was happening and understand it in a different way that I had not been able to have before. I it was it was like my eyes opened to, oh, that's what this is. And I've, I had like, I don't know what to say. I had like shut off. It wasn't really shut off. It was just I'd never had an experience like that before. And it opened my eyes to the level of, if I am this open, that something like this could happen to me. How can I protect myself so that it doesn't happen? Um, I guess in a way it increased things for me in a sense of me wanting to move forward from that and allow that openness and understanding of other people and like even just to it's funny practice psychic um, events just to even see like, is this something I can do? Because it's not something I've ever practiced. So I never, you know, you don't know until it, like, really comes up and you get that validation. And as I got more and more validation of the things that I was seeing was accurate or correct, um, I started to feel more confident and comfortable, like, okay, I'm not losing it. This is I'm I'm in more in control now of what I'm getting. And I can see whether this is just woo woo weirdness or something like a weird phenomena experience that I ability I have, and I don't know what it is, I don't think any of us do. And I Courtney says this a lot too. But, um, if someone tells you they know, they don't know. No one really knows.
00:28:22 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah. I think, um, that's like a big thing in all, of all of the woo woo stuff I do. And it really drives me crazy. Like, I don't know, you just meet people that are so like, I put, like metaphysical people into three categories. I think that are like seekers kind of like us. We have this thing. We don't know what it is. We don't claim to know what it is. We're just going with the flow. We're open with people. Um, I don't I haven't seen you do readings, but if I do a reading and we get into a tense topic, I always pause and be like, look, this is friendly advice. That's how I want you to treat this. Please don't make a crazy decision based on anything I say. Um, but then I worked like a metaphysical convention over the weekend, and there are just some of the shit these people believe in like really blows my mind. And also they say it with like they're either duped or they're full of shit and it's like they're I don't think there's much middle ground there. So it's kind of crazy how many people try and like, just make a truth out of it instead of talking about it openly, which is why I feel so drawn to boo. Eight one two, I guess is because those those thoughts like how you guys never, ever, none of you have ever put a label on anything and I really appreciate that.
00:29:56 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I actually had this experience, and I don't think I've talked to you about this and, um, I won't go into too much detail out of respect for my grandmother, but my grandmother had mental illness. And she. You like her mental illness? Like had her rationalizing things because she wanted to feel safe in her and her beliefs in her environment. And so she used her. She used her mental illness. Um, and to rationalize things. But she like, for example, something bad would happen and she would say the witches did it or the oh, it was it was them. They've done this to me or they've made this situation uncomfortable or, you know, they it was always they did it. And it was she had she was never like formally diagnosed. But um, we believe she was having some hallucinations and stuff. Um, and something I'm really passionate about is mental health and how we perceive, um, paranormal experience and mental health versus reality and how they intersect. And I don't want to say that everything that she experienced was not was mental illness, because it may not have been. She did have spiritual moments where she she dabbled into different things and like her house was, was a vibe. It was a vibe. So, um, so she would say these things and you would write it off like, oh, she's just crazy. She's got mental illness or whatever the case may be. Um, but she might not have. And I think people get really stuck in needing to feel safe in their belief. And so if you speak it like it is, then it allows you to feel safe in your belief, if that makes sense.
00:31:56 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, um, I'm sure it brings a lot of people comfort as well. Um, because I don't know, like a lot of the weirder stuff I see at the metaphysical convention is like, ah, like healing items and things like that. And I'm like, that's lady, that's a flashlight and some crystal. I don't know what you're doing. Like. It's, uh. So it's there's a. Yeah, there's a fine line. And I think that kind of highlights something, too. I don't talk about often, but I get irritated about, um, working in healthcare or like, mental health adjacent, like field. Like today I was doing some studies on, like, sociology and things. And there was this there's this typically taught part of like this is how this is what these things mean to people in poverty, middle class and wealthy people. And all the columns were wealthy. People were like villains you'd see in a movie. And I'm like, so like a poor or middle class person made this chart like it's we there's like an overlap of psychology being a pseudoscience that people don't want to treat as a pseudoscience in the same way that like parapsychology. Like it's weird that one got respect and the other is just like shit on still, like, I guess is what I'm trying to say, because I feel like there's a lot of overlap in like, what you can treat as scientific research versus what you can't and what you can authenticate in either that you that you can't in the other. So there's just a bunch in psychology that it's even with scientific method you can't completely validate some a lot of it that's treated as fact to today. And it also changes very frequently. So.
00:33:49 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: There was a. Scientific study. Let's see if I can find it. But it was about prayer. And there was a control group that, um, like all of these people coming together to pray over someone, their ailments were healed versus, um, others, like prayer. Showing prayer works in a sense. Um, so everyone's focused intent can possibly produce some type of result. Now, granted, we don't know and that we can't tell for sure. And that's where the I think the, the disconnect with science and metaphysical stuff comes in is because how can you quantify or really put into like numbers and, um, prove something that you can't prove. It's just is there a correlation maybe, um, which, you know, the healing stuff, maybe that focused intent, that energy put into it is creating the. Being healed kind of thing.
00:35:01 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, that makes me feel more like a jerk to the metaphysical people. Uh, but, yeah, I don't know. It's wild. You highlighted a bunch of stuff I want to talk about, so I'm having trouble, like, kind of getting my brain straight. But there's also just, like. Like a lot of, like, weird manic stuff. I'll see. So I'm on this website for, like, booking gigs as a magician. And I also keep an eye out for leads for psychic services. Um, and I have that. So if people want to book a tarot reader for their holiday party, that's where that lives. But you also people find it somehow, and we'll put in a request to talk to a reader and that. Like, I don't know, sometimes they'll put what they want to talk to a reader about, like there was one last night that was to stop a witch from messing with my house, my car, my my home, my relationships. And I'm like, I don't reply to these. And someone always does. There's like another reader somewhere that's going to take advantage of this person. But if I did, I'd be like, how do you know it's a witch? Like what? What's the process there? Like, why are you so sure that why does it have to be this villain that you're putting on everything in your life? It's kind of crazy to think about like that overlap to.
00:36:29 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: And I think that's something that, um, we really work hard on in two, eight, one, two is the ethics of like, how can we help someone or address someone that is having a paranormal experience, um, in a way to either help them through that or like, I don't know, it's kind of hard to describe and explain, especially when there's that belief system in someone. They're like, oh, there's demons in my house. Well, how can I help this person who's just believing there's demons in their house. And, um, where is the line of. Of that. And that's where, like the sociology and the mental health and all of that kind of come into play, um, to kind of provide that person with a well-rounded idea of what might actually be happening and comfort them, like, without stomping on whatever their belief system is.
00:37:35 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: So how do you approach that? Have you been in that situation? And like if so, how? How do you approach it. Because I've had trouble. I kind of learned my lesson the hard way where the very first like seance style magic show I did, I had a lady reach out to me on Facebook, and I made her very upset because after talking to her for a minute, I asked, I was like, are you seeking mental health at all? Like, have you sought like mental health professionals because I was immediately like, this person is probably suffering from some sort of mental condition. They're not haunted. There's nothing weird happening. They have they they need a diagnosis, is what I came to the conclusion of just talking to them. So and I mean, by no means am I a doctor, so I could be way fucking wrong, but it's I don't know, there's just a lot of like, give and take there. And there's it's so easy to make somebody just furiously mad at you in those situations.
00:38:36 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah, I think, um, I haven't been in that exact situation in an investigation since now we have gone in places where there's been activity and we have been able to say, okay, we've been able to find like the reason for for what was happening, like, this isn't really happening. So and easing someone's mind like, this isn't paranormal. Um, here's what's going on. And we were very easily able to show them that, which I think, um. I think that's good. And people appreciate that because it's giving them peace of mind. They don't necessarily want this to be a paranormal experience per se. Um, but in those in those situations, I think that having some type of understanding of mental health and of like of people and how they work, being able to, um, approach those situations where you can validate their feeling but also show them that's kind of what you were talking about. And I think that even though you may not think that you have that, um, correct way of handling it, I mean, what you were saying sounds pretty decent as far as that goes. Like, hey, um, this this may not be paranormal for you. Um, this is this could be something else I would recommend. Maybe you look into some other reasons for what's happening. Um, keep keep an open mind. Just kind of like encouraging without stomping on what their beliefs are. Um, because ultimately, you know, they're they're going to do what they want to do. They're their own people. And like, kind of pushing things, like you said, please don't just go make big decisions based on what I say. Um, those disclaimers are important because that's not what we're out here set to do. And there are some people that are doing that. And it makes me sad, which is another reason why I'm kind of like, I won't say I'm in the closet, I'm not in the closet on it, but I just, um, I don't broadcast that. I have those abilities. Um, if someone comes to me and asks, sure. So I don't tend to do a lot of readings because of that. Um, I just don't I don't want to cross those into those weird boundary Areas without prior notice.
00:41:05 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah. No, that makes sense. I think it's I encounter it probably a lot more than you guys do, too. Just because I blur the lines. I'm like, my website says magician fortune teller paranormal experiences. Like, what does that mean? Like I'm blurring the line for entertainment's sake, but I often run into like, I was talking to a girl that worked at the booth I was at, and she was like, so you're like a stage magician, too. And I was like, yeah. And then after talking to her for a second, she was like, it was clear that she thought that like, that still meant that what I was doing was real. And I was like, no, I use deception. And then she looked at me like I had antlers, like. And I was like, I don't know, like I'm pretty honest, like, I cheat, like. And people just can't grasp that they've just seen me, you know, have a reading with somebody about their aura or whatever, and then also turn around and do a card trick, and it's total bullshit. So it's just so weird like that. People have trouble grasping the charlatan concept.
00:42:19 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: And I well, I think that says a lot about you as a person because personally, like when I first went to your science show, I was so impressed because you do forget you're at a magic show. It's not like like you go in knowing, oh, we're at a magic show, but you forget because you do blur those lines so well. And people, I guess when you hit that nerve or when you like perform, they forget their magic show and they're like, whoa, this. This guy just totally read me and, like, new, the name that I put down on this paper. And just like he knows everything and they just take that and run with it. Now there are some people that obviously do know. Okay, I'm at a magic show. This is fun. We're having fun. But there's a one or two that are like, no, this is legit.
00:43:14 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, it's just weird. And I feel like disclaimers too. Just don't. There's like a thing that I think skeptics talk about a lot where it's like, well, you should have a disclaimer. They don't do anything. They do nothing. Even like talking. I guess that's what I'm just trying to say too, is that the people that believe are gonna believe. So I was immediately thinking about how many people you guys like go into their house. They're having some paranormal activity. You go in and you say, well, actually, when your air conditioner kicks on, this door thumps. And that's the racket you're hearing at night. We were able to reproduce it. Um, this way. We have video of it, and then you leave, and they don't want to feel stupid, so they probably start as, like, just they're never gonna fess up to their friends. No, my house is haunted. And then maybe they start to believe their own shit a little bit. Or maybe they just are in complete denial. And like, that's also part of the mental health field, too. You can't control what people are gonna do. Like, you can diagnose somebody with bipolar disorder or whatever, but they're not you can't make them take their medicine like, I don't
00:44:21 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah.
00:44:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: know. So it's a frustrating thing about this field that I don't know how to handle. And it's interesting how I experience it in this way. So I was just curious about how you guys handle it because I don't know, it's so wild. And thinking about that first show you, you, you guys came to to it was you and Katie. And I just remember afterward, Katie walked up to me and was like, what? And I had to be like, okay, what? What are your questions?
00:44:51 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah. And we've been places where it's been both like we've been able to debunk this. One thing that they're saying, oh, this keeps happening, we debunk it. And then we got like a full on EVP voice of a man with no man in the house. Like there are times it's both. And so like, yeah, sometimes, you know, maybe there is a paranormal experience happening, but there are other things happening that can be explained. And, um, it's nice to be able to validate that for people when we do go on investigations. Um, so and I know we like to do them, um, we just haven't been doing as many lately really, other than.
00:45:36 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, well, it's a lot of work for a little to no money, so.
00:45:40 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: It is. Yeah.
00:45:41 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Um, so getting back on, like, the the topic of psychic abilities, I guess. Sorry. Can you hear my cat? Oh, my God, this cat.
00:45:59 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I love it.
00:45:59 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: I guess he just needed to look outside. So he's a senior and he's real grumpy. Um, what was I saying? When did you really start to. When did it become something that you started to take seriously?
00:46:18 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I would say it was shortly after that event. Um, after the year happened, um, when Katie came to Courtney and I and said, hey, I've got this idea, I want to do one, too. Um, it was like I had just had a baby and I was trying to figure out my place in, like, the paranormal world and like, what I was doing. And I had already been, um, working on protecting myself and meditating and, like, practicing, um, and it just took a lot of energy build over time. And I, we talk a lot about consent between the three of us and like what we're doing in the paranormal field and like the things that we want to do and how we want to engage with the community in a way that's authentic and, um, brings to light that we nobody has the answers. Right. So when we started really doing that, um, I got consent from them to practice, and I just started practicing, like, tuning in, if you will, to each of them. And, um, they would send me things like, hey, can you see if you get any impressions from this and not give me any information? And, um, I would purposefully say, hey, if you want me to read something, don't give me any information. And then that is what brings on that validation. And so like Courtney sent me a house to read, and I just looked at this picture of this house, tuned in whatever, got whatever information and what I shared with her. She already had all the information of what was going on in the house, had the whole story of what was happening there, and I was able to tell her all the things that she already knew. So that was just really validating for me. And the more that that happened, um, the more I just kept practicing and practicing. Now I'm really in tune with those two. So, like, I've, I can I think I sense them a lot and, um, I appreciate them letting me practice on them because poor, poor Courtney is just drinking a Diet Coke, and I'm like, hey, uh, is that Diet Coke good? And she's like, what?
00:48:39 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: It's interesting. So the the first time I because I didn't know what to think getting into it because I'm still a bit skeptical. But I went to a thing and Katie was there and we were talking and hanging out, and she sent you a text message and was like, what am I doing right now? And you were like, uh, you're with a boy. He seems nice. Like, no, he didn't have he didn't get all the context. But it was like, I even think you were like, he's wearing glasses. Like, it was really like, we were like, oh, weird.
00:49:10 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I remember that because she had there was like a purple. I saw like a purple fabric over a corner, like corner fabric. A table and I and I was like, he seems nice. He's got a nice smile. I have good vibes. Are you on a date?
00:49:29 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah. And, uh,
00:49:30 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: She's like
00:49:31 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: so
00:49:31 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: quiet.
00:49:31 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: it was like. No, it was, uh, interesting. So, uh, like how accurate it was. So we, um. And I don't know how much of it we have developed our own dialogue or you guys had. And I have adopted your dialogue. But what does the process of tuning in involve for you because we talk about it a bit and I think I sort of get it. But you also could just blow my mind right now. It could be not what I think at all.
00:50:00 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: So it's funny because like, even I want to talk about this with other people, it's hard to describe it. It's also not in the same sense. So my version of tuning in is just focusing like I, I actually my the way I focus is I use a symbol. Um, I visualize the same symbol, um, every time, especially if I'm going to focus like, okay, so I'm going to tune in to Jared and see what's going on. So I will close my eyes, visualize that symbol, focus in on it, and visualize your face. Visualize like you. How how is Jared? Where is he? What's he doing? Um, which sounds really creepy saying it like that, but once I do that, I can just kind of chill and then I start getting a visual of who and what I tuned into. And so that's if it's a place like a house, I get information on if there's any activity in the house, if there's someone like living in the house. Um, it's weird because it's like I can physically see it, but I'm, I can't it's not I'm not looking at it. And I think I think you were at work and I saw you carrying, like, something big and heavy outside, and you're like, oh, yeah, I kind of just hearing something. So, um. And I don't get, like, super, I guess small details all the time either. So that tuning in process is just, is just that, like really a focal point and then visualizing what I'm looking at, who I'm looking at and then just seeking information about it.
00:51:53 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: In. That's interesting. So it's a little I inspired by you. I started to try to do stuff like that, sort of, um, but for me, I don't know. I used to feel like I had a good imagination until you get into this, like, realm of stuff, and it helps me to find a thing that that person likes. Like, if it's music, I'll put on a song from a band that I know they like and then like, try and meditate and think about them and focus on them, or a memory I have with them. And from that usually I'll get some info. So not all the time. I'm really bad at it, but it's interesting how it's so much different than you. So what is a protective thing you've done? So you had mentioned meditating a lot as most of the protective work you do, like meditation?
00:52:50 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I
00:52:50 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Or.
00:52:50 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: would say so, yeah. Um.
00:52:52 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Do you get into the magic stuff at all, like witchcraft or any of that stuff? I feel like there's some crossover there for me, so that's why I'm asking.
00:53:00 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah, I would say a little bit, um, I'm a visual learner. I'm a visual person. So I think some of the realm of virtual and like, I guess some of the witchcraft type, um, work, um, resonates me in a way, because it gives me something physical to focus that energy on. Um, but not always. Um, I'm just. I'm a little ADHD. I'm a little all over the place, too. So having something physical to focus on really helps, which is why I chose a symbol to connect with and focusing on that, even if I don't have something physical. Um, helps a lot. And so, um, putting that intention out there of a boundary, basically an energetic boundary and growing that over time. Um, and I just, I, I have that boundary. So when I do tune in, you know, when it's intentional, I'm not getting a lot of outside information. Sometimes if I do like kind of let that wall down a little bit, I'll get. I think I was having a conversation with Katie one night and like trying to communicate with her, and I kept getting an old man standing at his coffin, like showing me himself. Looking at the coffin. I could draw a picture of him. I saw him so clearly and it was just like, I'm trying to have a conversation and I'm just getting interrupted by, who are you? What is going on here? Um, stuff like that will happen if I am not, like, holding those boundaries.
00:54:42 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: So it's visual for you, then? Interesting.
00:54:45 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah, more. More visual, auditory or anything.
00:54:49 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: I get so I don't. It's interesting because that was my next question is like if you thought if there was like some mediumship there, if it was just intuitive because I'll have uh, I always joke that it's like fleeting mediumship because it'll happen to me. Uh, usually the worst possible time, usually during a magic show and usually unexpectedly. So, like the most recent time I was doing a late Halloween party was the week after Halloween. I was at just at some like frat house. There were a bunch of drunk people, and I was doing a reading for someone. I was doing a trick, um, the with the bell. You know what I'm talking about. Um, and, uh, I just when I defined the name of the person they were thinking of, um, because during Halloween, I get a little more blurry on the lines. So if during the year, if I'm doing a spooky trick, I have them think of a dead celebrity. But I said, you can make this as personal or impersonal if you want. If you're comfortable, use someone. If they if they give you good feelings. I don't want you crying on stage. And then it's like because I said that I got overwhelmed with emotion when I got the name and like, I cried. They were fun. But like, sometimes that like, that'll happen and it gets real weird and I never know how people are gonna react. But. So I guess that answers my question. So it happens to you sort of the same, where you just get interrupted with whatever you're doing.
00:56:16 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: And sometimes it happens emotional like that. Um. I've had. I walked into a house, so, um, I was actually doing, like, a seance. Okay. And I was in this home, and we were. We were talking, and, like, I just kept. I kept seeing an older woman, like an older lady. And she. It was. It was weird because she wasn't. I don't know how to. It's so hard to describe this, but, um, I felt like it was a. I just felt like I was hugged by this lady, and it felt like it. Just like your grandma. If your grandma came back from the dead and gave you the biggest hug ever, how you would feel. And that's how I felt. And I just started bawling in front of these. I think a couple of them were still kind of strangers to me, and I just am like, overcome with all this emotion. And I didn't know how to handle it because I was like, what is going on right now? Um, sometimes it does affect me. So like physically and emotionally like that. And so you probably I mean, I know I've told you this before, but I feel like you probably are a lot more open than you realize, even in those moments of doing a show because of what you're doing that's allowing that energy to flow, and it's going to blur the lines of of magic if you do have that ability.
00:57:41 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, I've been playing a lot with that idea of like, how blurring the lines kind of primes people for like a real paranormal experience and like, um, I'm I'll probably keep talking about it through like the next few episodes, but I'm reading this book called The Trickster and the paranormal, and a lot of the first part of it is about psychology and how blurring boundaries are. Having a lack of boundaries kind of sets people up for paranormal experiences, and I feel like that happens a lot with me because I often don't have experiences if I'm reading, if I'm just doing tarot or palm readings or anything like that, um, I'll get more experiences palm reading because I'm in physical contact with people, but it's usually when I'm actually blurring the line between what people think a spirit medium is. And a magic show is when like the actual like real spooky stuff will come through. Um, so it's always interesting to me that way. Um, and it's crazy how you can get very a lot of clarity on the emotion you're feeling in a way that you probably can't all the time. Like you might be sad about something, but not be able to put the words to it like sad doesn't quite equate it, but it's interesting when you have those moments, how well you're able to define them, and also like what you're feeling too, because sometimes it'll be like a a shoulder rub or something and you'll be like, that was weird. What was that like or. So it's cool to have that validated for myself.
00:59:14 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah. And I think when you do those readings to it, it's interesting how you don't have those experiences as much during like the readings. Is it more transactional for you? I guess in some aspects.
00:59:30 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, I mean, I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but a lot of a lot of that stuff for me is transactional. I started because I need money. I still do it because I need money. I'm scared to give private readings I don't offer, like private readings or long form readings. I limit myself to parties or events where we're in and out. Less than ten minutes I'll spend with people and I enjoy giving readings. Um, and I'm very good, I think, because I'm so well studied and, um, like anybody that says they read body language is full of shit, too, for the most part. I mean, there's it's like hypnotism. There's some science there, but there's this English mentalist named Derren Brown that fucked everybody on that, too, because they were like, well, I don't want people to think I can speak to the dead. So maybe I read body language and then we get it's so dumb there. But some of that's real too. Like, I'm good at what we call cold reading, which is I'm naturally good at picking up on people anyway. And then I've trained myself to read body language and also talk to people. So I think that those skills and I also knew because they always say when you're learning a skill, the best thing to do is figure out what you fucking hate about it so that you don't do that. And that can kind of help you develop. Like, if I'm going to be in a metal band, I hate I hate discordant chords. So my band, we're not gonna play those or whatever it is. Right? Like, and so for me watching readers, I hate it when there's just some old lady in a turban that just won't shut the fuck up. And they're just like, you're gonna break up with your girlfriend. Like that actually happened to me. Um, and I'm like, we've it's been eight years. We're still together. Like, you're just talking. You're not stopping to actually listen to people. And I think that my readings are already pretty intimate, because the first thing I do is this is what this card means. Does that resonate with you? And I wait for them to respond. And if they say yes, then we move on. If they say no, then we have a conversation. Imagine that. Like
01:01:40 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah.
01:01:40 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: in a reading. I think that a lot of it is. It's maybe not transactional. Once I get started, but the very act of me being there usually is transactional, if that makes sense. And hopefully it doesn't make me seem like some sort of monster.
01:01:55 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: No. And I think that also, um, one of the reasons why I don't do readings like that currently is, um, there's a lot of expectations and a lot of, um, media that people consume of what is it? What a medium is. And I think there is a lot of reality that is not anywhere near that of people who can do types like readings and sorts. And I'm, I don't know, recovering people pleaser in a sense where I don't want to I don't want to be fake either. So if I don't get anything, I don't get anything. And I try to be as honest as possible with people. And on that, if if they come to me for something like and that's happened before like, hey, I'm not really getting anything. And so sometimes I would like turn to cards or something like, I think I may have mentioned to like, I'll use the cards, but then I think a lot of people get that, um, need to perform as well. Um, especially after a certain period of time, if they don't get something like there, there's an expectation there that needs to be met. And I struggle with that line. So I'm just trying to be as authentic as possible in what I can do and what happens, I guess.
01:03:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: This is like a hole. This is an interesting thing. I'm just thinking of all the stuff people like, skeptics or people that aren't readers, say. And it's interesting, all the different takes because I don't For me, like, obviously I need money. This is what I do for a living. So I do readings. I start all my readings with a very simple script and I don't. I think this is why it takes the pressure off. Performing for readings for me in a sense, is because I say, hey, have you had a reading before? And they'll say yes or no, and no matter what they say, say, well, every reader is a little bit different. Everybody has their own interpretations. I don't believe these are all knowing, all magical cards. I can't tell you when you're going to die or how many kids you're going to have. But I do believe there are powerful interpersonal tool we can use to work through things in our daily lives. So think of this less like a psychic reading and more like a conversation. If at any point things don't make sense to you or you, you have questions, stop me and we'll talk through it. But ultimately you'll get out of this what you bring into it, just like any other conversation. With that in mind, go ahead and pull out any three cards you like. I
01:04:20 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I
01:04:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: open
01:04:21 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: love
01:04:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: every
01:04:21 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: that.
01:04:21 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: reading that way. And, um, even though I do have some like maybe semi spiritual feelings about the cards at this point. I do, I still open that way because I want it to be a conversation. Ultimately, I don't want to be that person performing with a tarot deck. I want it to be. An intimate thing. I want you to feel safe enough to be like, well, my brother just died. And then we cried out together like, I want to create a space where people are comfortable. So it's not transactional in that point. But I do feel sheisty about it, and I do want people to go away feeling like they got something. But I also have to set that boundary of like, that's why I say you'll get out of this what you bring into it. And so if you have a lady that's just not giving me anything and then they leave mad, I'm like, well, thanks for the ten bucks or whatever, right? Like, I don't like, I don't know,
01:05:19 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah.
01:05:19 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: you just took you just wasted my time and took the space of another person. So why shouldn't I charge for that?
01:05:25 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah.
01:05:25 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: And yeah, I don't know if that, like if those two things go together, but there's a lot of people that think if somebody's charging for readings, they're full of shit. And I'm like, well, fuck you. I this is I drove two hours to be here. I shouldn't charge for that. Like, I don't
01:05:41 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: You
01:05:41 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: know.
01:05:41 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: know what? After talking to you more about it, I was. I felt really weird. Like, I don't know that I would feel as comfortable charging for a reading because, um, like, how do, like, what do I know? Like, like, how much do I believe in my ability and what I'm saying. Um, but it is your time. It is your energy. And I've done these full readings for people that have come to me, and it is exhausting. By the time I'm done, like, I'm exhausted, physically exhausted. And I've done I've spent, you know, an hour, you know, working on, um, trying to tune in to them energetically, trying to get information. And it's just, um, I can like time is money. We do have to survive. Like it's. I understand that portion a little bit better now. And I just think you're really gifted at being able to talk to people. Um, like, I I'm good with mental health. I'm good with people. I can take care of people. I can probably keep you alive. But, um, I struggle in that realm of, like, I don't know. I'm impressed by you. I don't know how you do it.
01:06:52 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: I mean, I just talked to people. I listen to people. I mean, that's like the big secret I'm about to start doing, like, TikTok stuff because it's a slow season and I'm a broke ass performer. But I think that part of what I want to teach is to just shut up and listen. Sometimes that's the that's the move is to just listen to what they're saying and be open to that and create a space. And I would say ninety percent of the time, if somebody's not owning up to something, if there's a card on the table and I'm like, well, what does that none of that makes sense to you. And I'm like, well, let's let's put this on hold and let's look at the next card. And they're like nothing. Then I'm like, okay, well what's going on? Like, where are you in life? What are you doing? And then almost always they're like, well, you know, things are pretty good. I'm pretty happy right now. I'm working at Myer and, you know, things are great. I just got a new boyfriend, Dave. He's real sweet. And I'm like, okay, let's back up. We were just talking about running on instinct with the moon over here, and you said, that doesn't really make sense to you, but you're working at Myer, you're really happy at Myer. And they're like, no, I'm not. I'd like a new job. And I'm like, so you're just going with the flow of things, like I said earlier, and they're like, well, yeah, when you put it that way and you have to like pull it out of them. Like, I think I have a lot less of those by being so open or like I had an order reading for a lady that was real mad at me because her aura said she was analytical because it prints out like this paper and I don't know what. I believe in the aura stuff at all. It is candidly a job I do for money, but the one thing that did make me believe in it I'll get to in a second. But this lady was like it says, I'm very analytical. And then after ten minutes of her analyzing everything I said, I was like, and she was like, oh, I guess you're right. And I was like, I didn't even say it. The paper did. You never let me do my job like a computer gave you this and you got upset about it. So it's just weird. Like there are definitely, like, hard spots. I don't know where I was going with any of that. I'm just talking about being a reader and how hard it is. But I think the it's interesting, like how much validation you can get in those moments as well, because whether you believe in the stuff or not, there's always there are always things that I think highlight stuff. So when I started reading doing the reading thing. I did a a photo eight a m Saturday before we opened, and I was bright orange, which is the color for like, creativity because I was coming into it like a magician. Oh, this will be fun. Let's see what happens. And then Sunday I took another one first thing in the morning, and I, I obviously look tired. You can see this on my Instagram if you're listening. It's at Jared Magic. Um, but you can see it change to blue. And that's like the empathy color. Like all blues and purples are all your empathy. And like, you can see my aura change from being on fire with creativity. And how am I going to magic my way into this? And then the next day, being full of empathy and having all my, like, caretaker energy. So it's kind of interesting to have those moments too, where I don't know all my whole story is going into thing as a shyster and then being like, oh shit, that was crazy. Like what just happened to me?
01:10:26 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I think we all have experiences that we can't explain. Whether it's paranormal or something like that. You know, it's, um, there's some kind there's there's stuff that happens and I tend to lean a little bit more towards, like what Courtney has studied and has looked into as far as, like the human experience and having paranormal experiences, being a part of that human experience and, um, just not knowing the answers. I mean, I, I wouldn't say I was seeking answers anymore. I think there was a moment where I was seeking answers and I grew up, I guess, you know, in Religious home kind of similar, I guess. Background knew I was a preacher kid for a while, and I just I got more questions than answers. But I've found comfort in not knowing. Um, and some of that came from watching death. Some of that came from, um, the experiences that I've had, um, you know, seeing an apparition of a person like you like that. I think you mentioned a story of, um, you seeing an apparition in the hallway of someone had passed away. Um, that's happened to me at the hospital. I was getting blood in the basement and saw one of my patients who started coding upstairs, and I was just like, oh, okay. Um, and just having those kind of experiences and being open to that and being okay with it, I think is a big part of the journey, being okay with not knowing.
01:12:15 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, I think that's kind of where I was trying to go, I think. Sorry, but the like with the reading thing is just trying to see what happens with every reading situation to which has opened me up to like doing it for money more, I guess, is where I was trying to go with all that. So you kind of highlighted that there in a weird way. But yeah, I think not knowing is there's a lot of comfort, but it also, I don't know, the lack of dogma in actual spirituality gives me a lot more comfort that like, you know, I don't know, I don't ever feel like I'm going to be punished. I guess, like there's just so much even from like a theological standpoint where I'm like, that was never that's never really in the text. It's just been passed down since the seventies by some guy that owned a megachurch, and now we all believe in it. I don't know, it's just so like and there's a lot less of that once you start seeking your own answers. And kind of,
01:13:11 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yes.
01:13:11 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: I don't know, at a point, you just find a peace and knowing that I have had enough experiences to know that while there is something bigger than this.
01:13:27 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah. And I think something is there is something bigger than this. And we are here for a human experience of some kind. Um, and, like, I'll even like my dad. Like he. I'll never forget the day he came. He was a minister. He has a master's degree. He went to Bible college like he did all these things. And he during through this course of his journey, he discovered something was just like, wait a minute, something's off here. And he came home and said, hey, listen, I don't believe this same path anymore. And if you want to continue believing in these things, I support that. But I'm going on a different path right now. And so as a kid, like we just believe what we're taught to believe. And so we want to please our parents. We want to do all these things. And so I kind of followed that same path. So I was just like, oh, wait a minute. What? And it was that moment too, where I was like, okay, maybe there are other explanations or other things out there, and I don't think that it is linear or any one specific thing or.
01:14:42 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, I think the truth is in the crossovers everywhere. And that's kind of what I mean. I don't know, there's too many there's too many crossroads to figure that out. But you can that's at least how I see it is by looking at where society is on the other side of the world, believe similar things. I think that's kind of where we kind of find the truths. But, uh, we've been talking for a while. I want to wrap things up and you've kind of already answered this, but I'm going to ask it directly anyway. Um, I've got two questions. What is part one is what's the thing you used to believe that you changed your mind on after years of paranormal investigation? And then, um, I always want to end because that's the this the this whole project is me being a dirty, dirty con man and coming around to being a spiritual person and really trying to understand what other people believe. Um, and being open to it. I know I talk a lot of shit, and I always will because I'm a cynic, but when that lady handed me the flashlight and the crystal this weekend, I promise you I was not a jerk to her face. I was like, what's the. I actually asked, I said, what's that for? What do you what does this do? Is what I said. So she showed me and I was polite about it. I want to know. I want to know this about everybody. So what do you believe right now? I know, and that I know. This always comes with a caveat that subject to change, because I think we're always changing what we believe in. But yeah.
01:16:15 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: I agree with you. I think that that definitely belief can be fluid as you have different experiences. And, um, I mean, something that I believe previously, I mean, was more like strict religious, like this is the way it is. Um, and through paranormal investigation, there is so much more that I don't understand that it. I've seen a shadow person. I saw a ball manifest in front of my face and float in the air. What? Like I have seen things that I never thought I would see or be able to explain. And whenever I try to talk to people about it, it's just like, oh, okay, um, I probably sound ridiculous, but I'm finding that people are way more open to that then you might personally think, and everybody's got a story or an experience of some kind. Even the most religious people that I have encountered, like they may rationalize their paranormal experience within their religious belief system, but that doesn't take away that there was an experience. And I believe that there is. There is something outside of our human life experience. There is something there, um, through nursing, through mental health, through paranormal investigation. I have seen just all of these different things that intersect in a different way, but they all tend to have a similar, I guess, feeling to it. There's this, I don't know, there's a vibe, there's a there's a vibe to this, like experiences that we can't explain. And I love it. I think it's I think it's a beautiful thing. And I again, am comforted by the fact that I don't know what's out there, um, when there was previously fear. Um, I have a lot of anxiety of anxiety disorder. I, like, terrified I'm just gonna keel over at any moment. But I'm also very comforted in the fact that I do believe there's something after death of this human life existence. And that's that's definitely very fluid for me and can totally change.
01:18:52 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: That's awesome. Thanks for sharing I think yeah, the fluidity is a crazy thing and I like how you can grow the more you open yourself up to it. Like, I mean, for four or five weeks ago, I was talking to a haunted doll and a coffee shop with you, uh, and everybody else present. That's a thing that like six years ago, I would have been like, that's all bullshit. Dolls are just creepy looking, so what the fuck? But then I saw a lady having a a doll light up an EMF meter on request, and I was like, what the fuck is happening? So I don't know. I like the the. It's interesting now because if I walked, I don't know, just asking. Ten Jared twenty, ten twenty years ago what he thought would be completely different from how I am today and even just like revisiting shit with my dad, like asking him for his Bigfoot stories or whatever, listening to them again has changed the way I think, like about all of that, because he's still like a I don't know how Bigfoot friendly you are, but like, I don't know, I kind of believe in metaphysical Bigfoot now. And when I talk to people I like, somebody made a joke about Bigfoot on Facebook the other day, and I was like, but have you heard of Metaphysical Bigfoot? And they were like, what? And I was like, yeah, let's talk about that weirdness. I don't know, it's just you. You find more and more weird shit, I guess, is what I'm saying. And
01:20:20 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah.
01:20:20 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: it just keeps changing and keeps adapting. It's kind of nuts.
01:20:23 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah. Something I've actually enjoyed is because I've known you for so long and like old two thousand and five, Jared and Kristen are very different people than who we are now. And it's really cool to see you on the investigations that you have been on with us. Um, whether it be our event or even like just, um, an offshoot one, um, just having those experiences and you being so open and curious and involved in it. And I'm excited to, like, bring you on more because like some of the experiences I've had, I, I may not have had otherwise. And I think that's a reason why a lot of people move towards paranormal investigation and seeking those paranormal experiences because once you have one, you're like, wow, okay, this, this is a thing and you want another one. It's like trying to seek out those experiences instead of just letting them come to you.
01:21:22 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah. Do you think so? I haven't asked any of you guys this, and I probably should, but you. I kind of like a Bu eight one two mission is to put investigation in the hands of the everyday person.
01:21:34 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Right.
01:21:35 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Why do you think that's so important for this, like, reason? Do you think?
01:21:39 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Um, I do, um, like I said, everybody's got a story, and people are very afraid of things that they don't understand or that they can't explain. And we want to empower people to kind of set aside the fear a little bit and have a paranormal experience if they want one. And so we try to give a safe space for that. So people that are curious have an opportunity to use our equipment, see kind of what what an apparent paranormal experience might be like or what an investigation might be like in a safe space with other people that can, um, it's I don't know, it's like that group mentality. But then, um, we also don't conform to all of the normal ghost hunter kind of things either, because, I mean, paranormal experiences happen with the lights on. Like, we don't subscribe to any one particular way of doing things. Um, now, when you're doing academic research, you're going to have to have a lot more rigid standards. And that's one of the reasons why we broke away from that a little bit, because we can still do that. But we like to incorporate other faculties. We like to use cards we like to use dowsing rods. We like to encourage people to practice and utilize whatever they feel led to use. Bibliomancy like, I think that's one of Courtney's favorites. Of course, we have a lot of fun, um, doing that. And some of the times that we do that fun stuff, we get the weirdest things that happen.
01:23:25 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Yeah, yeah. No. That's awesome. Also, Courtney, if you're listening, there's this book called The Book of Symbols. You can get it like Barnes and Noble or wherever. But bibliomancy with the Book of Symbols is rad. You should try it. I don't I do a lot of this just as a magician too, because the sometimes you show up and people are like, entertain me, magic man, and you do some weird shit like bibliomancy. So super fun. Um, but no, I love that. And also, I mean, you get people to play with stuff because if you had asked me in September what I thought of dowsing rods, I would have been like, that's whack. But then you put some in my hands in October and I was like, wait a second, you can't ideomotor anything on this thing. Like it's impossible to make it go a certain direction, like so,
01:24:08 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: Yeah, they're all over the
01:24:09 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: um.
01:24:09 Kristen Raw Audio_silenced gapswav: place.
01:24:12 Jared Raw Audio_no_Echowav: Oh, no. You cut out. By Kristen. Did I lose my internet connection? That would be insane. I'm gonna say Marshman ruined it. Yeah, you did, buddy. Well, we lost Kristen, guys, but, um, I will I Kristen has two, uh, Instagram accounts, so Kristen has two Instagram accounts, so I will put the one that she would like you to follow in the show notes, and, uh. Yeah, I'll put that in the show notes, but also go follow Abu eight one two on Instagram. Um, they are an awesome organization. As we have talked about. It's bu underscore eight one two. Underscore five oh two is the group. They are awesome people. They are out there putting paranormal research in the hands of the everyday person. So go check them out. And then I will put Kristen's Instagram handle in the show notes. But you should go follow her. Uh, she is doing some fun things and she's a rad person, but I just want to thank all of the Bu eight one two ladies for coming on the show. I really appreciate them, um, being there for me and supporting me in that way and be my first guest because I've spent a lot of time with them over the last couple years doing weird, weird, weird shit. And, um, they've taught me a lot, and I've learned a lot being with them and become more open. Sorry if you can hear my grumpy old man cat in the background, but guys, thanks so much for listening. I love you. Bye bye.
